Rod Morgenstein’s professional music career began as a founding member of the groundbreaking group the Dixie Dregs in the 70’s. His unique, dynamic and musical drumming style has led Rod to win many awards such as Best Progressive Rock Drummer award in Modern Drummer Magazineï¿½s Readerï¿½s Poll 5 years in a row. Later on he has worked with such names as the Steve Morse Band and Jordan Rudess but there’s no doubt that he’s best known from his work with 80’s multi platinum hard rockers Winger. The band released three albums before they wraped it up in late 1993. Each member then went their separate ways to pursue individual goals. Kip Winger has released a number of solo albums,
INTERVIEW AND LIVE/INTERVIEW PICS BY MARKO SYRJALA
TRANSCRIPTION BY ANDY OSBORN
THE REUNION, NEW LINE UP AND FUTURE OF WINGER?
Well to be honest, I was surprised to hear the new album from you guys after 13 years. I have to ask why just now, why this album wasnï¿½t released right after PULL and what caused your breakup back in the day?
Well, hereï¿½s the thing: Iï¿½ve been a professional musician for thirty years. Iï¿½ve played with a lot of bands, and the most fun group of guys to tour with is these guys. We didnï¿½t disband because we were fighting or enemies, itï¿½s because Nirvana came on the scene in 1991 and it was essentially over for everyone. Record sales went from the millions down. Pull sold I think 300,000 records in America which by todayï¿½s standards, itï¿½s like wow youï¿½re happening, but back then you had to go gold at minimum. So, what happened was MTV had been pounding our videos from 1988 until like the end of 1991. When we came out with Pull they said they would play "Down Incognito" which was nice but then they said look, alternative is in and itï¿½s just time to go out to pasture. So when MTV suddenly stops playing all of the videos from metal bands, it sends a message to the record labels and the labels say maybe itï¿½s not worth pumping all the money into this music anymore. Then, everything happens at once. All the magazines are interested in Pearl Jam and Nirvana. We said look, we had a great run, we have other things in music that we do so letï¿½s just let it end at a high note and see what happens down the road. Kip Winger is one of my best friends and Iï¿½ve worked on his solo records and then thereï¿½s this Italian label, Frontiers, which for the last few years has been telling us weï¿½re one of their favorite bands so when youï¿½re ready to do a record letï¿½s do it. So, the time was right and weï¿½re all really glad we did it. It was a wonderful opportunity to get together again. Four years ago we got together to do the Poison and Cinderella US tour which was a lot of fun for us. We just enjoy being together and Reb is the funniest guy that I know and so you just spend half the time laughing.
What kind of expectations do you have concerning the sales of this new album?
Well, we didnï¿½t want any illusions with this record so we said letï¿½s just do the record to remind people that Winger was a vital band and had something to say. And if all of our schedules line up and we can do some touring, letï¿½s do it to see how much of our audience is there, to see if itï¿½s even worth keeping it alive.
Do you think that this reunion is permanent and Winger will keep doing more albums in the future?
Weï¿½re not trying to think that far ahead. I think in our hearts we all hope that will happen but if no people show up to a show, then you know, how much can you bang your head against the wall? But, I think that turnouts will be pretty respectable. Weï¿½ll see. We have no idea if itï¿½s going to sell a few thousand or even fifty-thousand or more?
What happened to Paul Taylor. Why heï¿½s not a part of this reunion?
Yeah, heï¿½s taking another path. He wished us all well. He was coming in and hanging out with us while we were recording. Paulï¿½s been very successful writing music for television. He co-wrote the theme for ï¿½Sabrina the Teenage Witchï¿½ and heï¿½s making an incredible living off of that and heï¿½s the one that wrote ï¿½Miles Awayï¿½ which was our biggest hit. Heï¿½s now living in Nashville pursuing a songwriting career. Yeah, touring is not something heï¿½s interested in right now.
John Roth, Kip Winger, Reb Beach, Rod Morgenstein, Cenk Eroglu
You have two new members in the band now. Letï¿½s start from guitarist John Roth. I know he has toured with you guys before and he also plays on some of Kipï¿½s solo stuff?
Well, when Paul left the band after the second album, we auditioned not a lot of guys but Johnny came to us through our manager at the time who was a partner with Bon Jovi, Skid Rod and Motley Crue. So Doug was managing us for PULL and John was involved that Doug was also with and he told us that he knew the perfect guy. He said heï¿½s a great guitarist, a great singer and he can also play keyboards. He was exactly what we wanted. One minute into jamming with him we knew we didnï¿½t want anyone else. The record was done and we were like wow weï¿½ll be touring. So the record was just me, Kip and Reb.
Then keyboardist Cenk Eroglu, heï¿½s from Turkey, right?
How did he end up being in Winger?
You know originally what happened was, this guy sends e-mail for Kip: ï¿½I am from Istanbul, Turkey, and you are my favorite singer, Winger is my favorite band, I have to work with you.ï¿½ So, I think he sent Kip some of his music so Kip didnï¿½t want to just fly out to Turkey not knowing what to expect. But, it turns out he has some fame in Turkey as a performer but heï¿½s also a successful producer. Kip was actually blown away by some of the music and then he made some trips to Istanbul and the two of them were coming up to me with this incredible music that blended eastern and western culture. There were eastern percussion ensembles along with Kipï¿½s voice so I put the drums down to a bunch of music. They worked so hard on it over the course of two or three years and in the final analysis when they got an albumï¿½s worth of music done they felt like they didnï¿½t quite meet their mark. So, they want to continue on that path until they hit exactly what their vision was. In the meantime, Cenk used one or two of the tunes for his solo record, so thatï¿½s how that whole thing came about. Cenk played on the new record. He was in Nashville putting down records. But, we couldnï¿½t work out his visa issues for the tour here.
I have heard the new album a couple of times now and I would say that my first impression is that itï¿½s even heavier album than Pull was. Was that on purpose?
You know, thatï¿½s such an easy question to answer. Well, youï¿½re a musician right? Anyone wants to have a career in music so in a perfect world we donï¿½t listen to anything and we just write music that is 100% what we want to do. But, when you do that most probably never ever get a record deal because nobody knows where to fit it or how to market it so itï¿½s too unique. What most musicians do when they want to have a career is listen to everything thatï¿½s happening in the music business and say, is what I feel inside of me somehow compatible with trying to use some of the elements of music that labels are signing now to enable us to get a deal? I think thatï¿½s part of how a lot of musicians end up getting record deals. A lot of musicians are into a lot of different kinds of music. My career has spanned so many different styles. I still play with Steve Morse and The Dixie Dregs doing this instrumental fusion music. I play with Jordan Rudess, the keyboardist from Dream Theater. We have a duo where we do this over the top progressive stuff. Also, I play in a band called Jazz Is Dead which for many years had Alfonso Johnson and people. We would do this jam band Grateful Dead kind of stuff. Then I would play with the bassist from Dream Theater and Ty Tabor from Kingï¿½s X to do this like power pop so, what is the music that I love? I love it all! Whether, itï¿½s the heavy metal of Winger or the fusion of the Dregs. The fact that the first two Winger albums sounded the same and Pull was a bit heavier and this one is even heavier than that. To me, itï¿½s not that you at one time were doing something that you were not true to and this is something that you are true to. Itï¿½s just that musicians evolve. We go through a lot of changes.
So are you saying that Winger is heavy metal?
My career started the day that I got out of college with the Dixie Dregs. Nobody ever knew how to label us because we did rock and fusion and country and theyï¿½d say: what are you guys? Weï¿½re just music! Once you put a label on it, everybody has a perception of what it is and they start throwing the shit at you. Well yeah, most people would say that Winger is heavy metal but if you hear ï¿½Blue Suede Shoes.ï¿½ Thatï¿½s not metal, thatï¿½s pop! And it almost has some progressive edges to it but what about this other song? So, I donï¿½t know what to call it any more, I just want to call it music!
GOLDEN 80ï¿½s WITH BEAVIS AND BUTTHEAD…
Back in the 80ï¿½s Winger was often called one of the wimpiest bands existing. Why?
Yeah well, I look at those pictures now and I just laugh. I have great memories of it all but some of it looks really silly. What people have to realize and remember is that back then when we were doing it, all those bands were very serious about it. We would go to great lengths to have clothing made and our haircuts and having it permed. It looks funny now; itï¿½s kind of like when you watch movies of England where theyï¿½re wearing funny hats. To them, it was very serious and so back then we didnï¿½t look any better, we look like a bunch of clowns! Back then it was what everyone was doing. The audience loved it and they were buying millions and millions of records so something was working. I dare say that a lot ofï¿½certainly the guitarists from the metal bands were way better than the guitarists that followed in the alternative bands. Reb [Beach] and Andy Timmons and from Danger, we could just go down lists of these great guitarists.
80’s style a’la Winger
What about the character on ï¿½Beavis and Buttheadï¿½ where they wore a Winger shirt?
It helped nail the coffin shut for our career. I remember I was watching it and laughing then all of a sudden I see this nerdy, wimpy character and heï¿½s wearing a Winger shirt. Not only that, but his parents wore Winger shirts! We tried to find out if we did something to the creator of that show, like why he chose us. Out of all the bands that were wimpy: Winger, Bon Jovi, White Lion, Danger Danger. Why Winger? We were never able to figure it out. Yeah, that really hurt but itï¿½s also very flattering. It means you mean something when someone chooses you to poke fun at.
The first two Winger albums were produced by Beau Hill. How it was working with him back in the day?
Well, Beau and Kip were best friends when they were teenagers. Then Beau was in a band called Airborne that had a record deal but nothing really happened. Somehow, he ended up producing Rattï¿½s first album and so he came on the map as a producer. Heï¿½s the one that kind of secured the first Winger deal, now that he was a hot producer. He went to Atlantic Records and got us a deal so he was just the logical choice to produce the records. But what happens so often in the music business is you kind of live life, play your gigs, do your records but you donï¿½t see eye to eye how it should be done. I wasnï¿½t particular crazy about some aspects of the production but a lot of the records were like that. I was just listening to ï¿½Seventeenï¿½ and thereï¿½s no cymbals! And the snare is the loudest thing and itï¿½s even louder than the vocals.
You mentioned that he produced Rattï¿½s first album; I think he actually produced five of their albums. There are no too much cymbals there eitherï¿½?
Itï¿½s part of his productions. Thereï¿½s no reverb and now when you listen it now, itï¿½s wimpy. I mean listen to that and then listen to ï¿½Back in Black.ï¿½ For years, Kip has wanted a chance to remix those albums.
Pull was produced by Mike Shipley and that album was something very differentï¿½
We know in some ways that it should have been the first Winger album. Itï¿½s not that hindsight is 20/20 itï¿½s just that you kind of wonder: what if this came first? ï¿½Seventeenï¿½ is the song that put us on the map and it also has the most jokes made about. The lyrics are stupid! But the music is very cool. It was just you know, back then it was sex, drugs and rock nï¿½ roll. A lot of bands did songs like that but that was the one that people make fun of.
Maybe that song is the reason for the whole Beavis and Butthead thing?
Maybe, but it also sold a million albums soï¿½ï¿½laughsï¿½
MEETING SEPULTURA, TOURING WITH SCORPIONS, PLAYING WITH ZENO AND ALMOST WORKING WITH BLACK SABBATHï¿½.
You have been in Finland a couple of times before. Do you have any memories from those visits? Many people remember when back in 1989 you played in a festival called Giants of Rock and Sepultura played just before youï¿½
[Laugh] Yeah, we will never forget that. See, bands like Winger and Sepultura should not be on the same bill. They have a much more hardcore audience. I remember playing ï¿½Miles Awayï¿½ ï¿½laughsï¿½ and you donï¿½t play a ballad like that for Sepulturaï¿½s crowd. They donï¿½t mix. There are a lot of different styles in the rock genre and we talk about that, we remember that night. The sun was shining and it was like 12 midnight. It was great. It was nice meeting the Sepultura guys because they were fans of the Dixie Dregs so it was cool for me.
I remember that one time you played here with the Scorpions?
Yeah, that was in 1991. You know what? Scorpions were actually the first band that Winger ever played with. We werenï¿½t a band that played clubs and eventually got a deal. We were musicians that did demos, our record came out and suddenly our first show is on tour with the Scorpions in America. That was in September or October in 1988.
Speaking of Scorpions, Iï¿½m actually going to meet with former Scorpions bassist Francis Bucholz in a few weeks. Heï¿½s actually playing with Uli Jon Roth and we are going to see them in Sweden.
Heï¿½s playing with Uli?! Youï¿½re going to seem them? Could you say ï¿½hiï¿½ to both of those guys for me? I used to be in a band with Uliï¿½s brother, Zeno, so for me it was a real thrill. I auditioned for them in New York City and Uli was there too. I played with them and that was really cool. So, I moved over to Hannover, Germany then went to England to do a Black Sabbath tour. But, back then Black Sabbath was only Toni Iommi. Eric Singer was on drums and Ray Gillen on vocals. Dave Spitz played bass and there was the keyboard guy, Geoff Nichols. So, we did a tour of the UK with them.
How was that tour?
It was good, it was really good. Zeno was a great man. It was a comedy of errors that made that not happen. They had signed the biggest record deal in the history of music as a new band. Thatï¿½s how huge it was. I think EMI England when they signed Zeno thought that they would be the next Queen. We would drive around London and see billboards for Guinness Beer and the next one was Zenoï¿½s new album. They were spending huge amounts of money on it but it just didnï¿½t take.
You never did any albums with them?
No, the record was just about to come out. They had three different drummers and producers on this record. I think thatï¿½s what part of the problem was. It was just the three guys in the band and they just kept plugging in new musicians and different producers and they recorded all over the world and spent I donï¿½t know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars on that record. By the time I got there, the writing was on the wall. I thought it was a good record but who knows what goes on behind the scenes at labels? Iï¿½m excited; the last show that Winger is doing is in Nottingham, UK at this thing called Fire Fest. Itï¿½s a bunch of bands and one of the bands is called Fair Warning and the bass player from Zeno, when I was in the band, is going to be there. Iï¿½m really looking forward to seeing him.
How about the Black Sabbath and album Seventh Star? You almost ended up being Sabbath drummer back then, right?
I think that was supposed to be a Tony Iommi solo record and Glenn Hughes was the singer. You know what, itï¿½s funny, I met Tony and Glenn in Atlanta when they were recording that record and thatï¿½s where I was living. I was friends with Jeff Glixman who I recently saw again at a Kansas concert in New York City. He used to be their producer. So I was living down in Atlanta in the 80s and when Tony was recording the album Jeff said hey, you should come in and jam with Tony because I donï¿½t know if Eric will be able to tour with them. So, I went in and jammed with him but I know I did a terrible job, because, I hate to confess this, I didnï¿½t know a single song by Black Sabbath. When I was growing up the bands I listened to were Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, Jimi Hendrix, and Cream. Jethro Tull was my favorite. For me, back then, because Iï¿½m very different now, Black Sabbath was too raw and basic. It was much simpler like, you hear the song and if you play an instrument you can figure it out if you listen to it. Jethro Tull takes a lot more work. I was more in that mode of everything has to be complicated. In my older age, I have really comeï¿½itï¿½s like Iï¿½m going backwards in a lot of ways. Now, I love the more simple, all about the vibe music thatï¿½s not just about the notes. So, when I went in to jam with Tony Iommi, I didnï¿½t know anything. Sure I may have heard Ozzyï¿½s voice saying ï¿½I am Iron Manï¿½ you know? Thatï¿½s all Iï¿½d ever heard. Like an idiot, I didnï¿½t even think to listen to Sabbath records before going in. All I thought in my mind was, oh right, heï¿½s a rock guitarist; Iï¿½ll just hit my drums as hard as I can and not even play fills. So, he was jamming and I would start playing and I have all these tom-toms that I wasnï¿½t even using. Then, after the fact, I listened to some records and Bill Wards uses toms all the time. So, I was clueless is what Iï¿½m saying. I didnï¿½t do my homework, maybe if I did, I would have had a shot at playing with him. I think Eric Singer was already coming in to do Seventh Star. Eric is a great drummer, a great drummer.
He does a great job with KISS and Alice Cooper.
Yeah, when Winger toured with KISS it was with Eric. I was becoming very friendly with him. That was in 1990, fall of 1990. Because then we came to Europe in December and played with Scorpions until 1991.
DIXIE DREGS AND JORDAN RUDESS
How did your first band Dixie Dregs originally started?
College; we were all music students. I also played keyboards and piano and I wasnï¿½t sure if I wanted to be a drummer or piano player. I was in an improvisation class playing piano; it was me and a lot of guitar players, like fifteen of them. And one of them really stuck out to me. He had long blonde hair, while all of the other guitarists had big fat jazz hollow-body guitars and there was the one guy who played like a bastardized Telecaster with four pickups and a Stratocaster neck and Gibson frets and he didnï¿½t sound like a jazz guitarist. The teacher was always yelling at him, saying ï¿½Morse, canï¿½t you sound like everybody else?ï¿½ And I said this guy is unbelievable. One day he came up to me and we didnï¿½t know each other at all. He heard that I played the drums and he told me his drummer just broker his arm surfing. And he asked to fill in for some rehearsals while he was gone and I said sure. I went into the first rehearsal and theyï¿½re doing like Mahavishnu Orchestra covers, which was my favorite band; that band changed my band. Iï¿½d never heard anything like that. So weï¿½re doing these covers and we have an electric violinist there. Steveï¿½s songwriting, I thought Iï¿½d died and went to heaven. Here I was playing my favorite kind of music and about a month of two later the other drummer came back and we started playing as a double drum band. But, he was more of a meat and potatoes drummer so he couldnï¿½t really play in the different time signatures. It just wasnï¿½t his thing. Everybody felt really bad and we didnï¿½t know what to do. Eventually, he just said this isnï¿½t my thing and he left. So, I was the guy.
Dixie Dregs promoshot
You guys have stayed very close?
Yeah, we have. The Dregs disbanded and then Steve started the Steve Morse band and he asked me to be a part of it. I did that for two records and then Kansas reformed and asked him to join them. He told me he wanted to check it out and living in Atlanta we were all down south. I moved to New York, which is where Iï¿½m from originally. Within a year I met Kip and Reb when they were doing demos and getting rejected from record labels left and right: ï¿½You suck, you suck, no, no, noï¿½. So it was just luck and timing. When I met them, I was up in the offices of a management company. Then, I was leaving and I didnï¿½t know anybody was still here; it was Kip and Reb using some recording gear. I expressed an interest in their music and they said okay, weï¿½ll put you on the list of the twenty drummers that want to audition. They called me a few days later and said ï¿½Hey, do you want to get together and jam?ï¿½ Kip had left Alice Cooper by that time. He was doing session work at that time. He played on a Bee Geeï¿½s record and did things like that.
I have understood that Alice wanted to change the direction of the band and thatï¿½s why Kip left?
I thought Kip just left on his own. They were very good friends, Kip and Alice.
How about Jordan Rudess (Dream Theater). You guys have been doing different projects during the years. How did you meet him in a first place?
Well, the Dregs were in the midst of touring in 1994 and our keyboard player wasnï¿½t able to do the last two months of the tour and none of us had ever heard of Jordan. Until Dream Theater came around, no one had heard of him. He was recommended to us from Jan Hammer, the guy who also did the music for Miami Vice. Heï¿½s one of my favorite Keyboard players. So, Jordan sent us one of his solo records and we were just floored by it. When he came down we told him that he was in without audition. Within three days he learned the whole set just by listening to the songs. He has perfect pitch, he was a child prodigy, and he discovered his genius when he was nine. He came down to Steve Morseï¿½s house and he played everything perfect. He would also say things like, ï¿½Did you also need me to play the bass line there?ï¿½ [Laughs] It was unbelievable! The first show that he played with usï¿½we rehearsed on Thursday and on Friday we played a show in Florida. In the middle of the show, the guitar, violin and bass rigs went down. But, drums can play whether the PA is working or not. And the keyboard PA was still there. So, rather than stop we just started jamming and it went on for I donï¿½t know, five or ten minutes. Everybodyï¿½s rigs were then fixed and we went on to the show. We talked about it afterwards and decided that we have to do something together. So, we spent 1995 and 1996 doing the Rudess/Morgenstein CD which came out at the end of 1997. Every year, he and I managed to do a handful of gigs. Just this past May we played in Venezuela and Costa Rica. We played with a Brazilian band called Angra, good band. Then we headlined in Costa Rica, just keyboards and drums! Heï¿½s so unbelievable. There is no keyboard player in the world that can do what he does. Almost the entire show is live, itï¿½s not like he presses a button to play a sequence. He programs the keyboard so the sustain pedal knows not to sustain the bass and leaves only the chords. Programs in pitch bends and stuff like that. Weï¿½re in the midst of doing another record. We have a lot of it done. So heï¿½s doing that, and he has another Dream Theater and solo record that heï¿½s working on. So, Iï¿½ll be doing some of that with him.
I heard something about Dixie Dregs and Kansas going on tour together, is that true?
That I have never heard about. The manager of the Dregs is also the manager of Dream Theater. Actually, I live with him because Iï¿½m a professor at Berkley in Boston. Heï¿½s been trying for the longest time to get the Dregs out there put hooking us up with bands like King Crimson or something, instead of us doing the clubsï¿½
So thatï¿½s not going to happen anytime soon?
No, itï¿½s not but that would be awesome.
Well, this will be the very last question. Will you guys be recording any shows from this current Winger tour?
Yeah, we were hoping on this tour to film a live DVD but weï¿½re not good without Cenk. The photo has the five of us and heï¿½s a really important part of the puzzle. We need to have the keyboards on a lot of the tunes plus another vocal because heï¿½s a very strong singer. Our agency is looking for a tour for us in the US sometime where we would have Cenk and then we could do the live DVD.
Thanks for your time Rod!
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MORE PICTURES FROM WINGER SHOW IN HELSINKI 2006 !!!